i wanna learn to play PL omaha, and PL omaha Hi/Lo.... i'm very new to the game, what would be the best way to start playing? where can i get quality starting hands and learning how to spot all the draws?
i've started playing PL Hi/Lo for play money... not doing too well.. i'm too scared to bet which is horrible in HE and poker in general... i wanna learn what sized bets i should be doing and such.... i'm a solid NL HE player, i've learned to play the player... close 120hr in limit and another 120hrs in NL HE in the last 4 months....
In Omaha, you actually have 6 HE starting hands since you can only use two of your four cards. For example, if you have AKQJ, it's the same as having AK,AQ,AJ,KQ,KJ,and QJ. In HE, these starting hands are all good playable hands in the right circumstances. So in Omaha, there are a lot of flops that would be good for these cards. All of the cards in this hand work together. If you had AKQ6, now you have AK,AQ,A6,KQ,K6,and Q6. Any good HE player knows hands like K6 and Q6 are garbage, and even A6 is usually worthless unless it is suited. So with this hand, out of the six possible combinations, only three of them can make any sort of hand.
Omaha is a game of draws and redraws. With four cards in everyones hands, the nuts is almost always out there, so you better be good at reading the board. If there's three to a flush, and you have a straight-fold. If you have the nut flush and the board pairs, once again fold, you ARE beat (most of the time anyway). In Omaha you are trying to either build the nut full house, the nut flush, or the nut straight, in that order. Anything less than a straight is almost always worthless unless you are in a shorthanded pot.
The nuts are usually out there because Omaha makes bad players even worse. With four cards, how could they possibly fold??? Your goal in Omaha should always be to make the nuts, and you should pick starting cards that will make you the nuts with redraws to bigger nut hands. Taking the AKQJ hand on a flop of AJT. You flopped the nut straight, but you also have two pair, giving you a redraw to a full house. Now if your cards were AdKdQsJs and the board was AhJdTd you not only have a full house redraw, but you have the nut flush redraw as well. So as you can see, having two suits is a good thing. I think mono-suited starting hands should be folded regardless of the rank of the cards, and unsuited hands should only be played if all four cards are above ten. Redraws are important because on the AhJdTd board, there's no way anyone holding two diamonds will fold, and I can guarantee someone is holding them, so if the flush hits, you want to have the nuts.
If you instead held AcKdQs6c on a flop of AhJdTd you would still have the nut straight, but with two cards to come, you better hope and pray that no one hits a redraw against you. You have no redraws and the 6 is worthless-it's called a dangler, a card that doesn't fit in with the rest. So to a HE player, a hand like AsKs3d9c might look good because of the AsKs, remember that the other five combinations (A3,A9,K3,K9, and 39) are garbage. You wouldn't play them in hold'em, so don't play them in Omaha, even if the cards are suited such as AsKs3d9d. If you hit a diamond flush, you will still most likely lose with it. There's one exception I make, and it's a controversial one, the play of AAxx and KKxx. Those cards look great, but they are only good, unless they are suited, or the xx are cards bigger than ten. For example, the best starting hand would be AAKK double suited. You have two top pairs, and two nut flush draws. I will play AAxx and KKxx but mostly because I'm looking to flop top set and fill in. Unlike HE, an unimproved AA or KK will NOT win the pot at showdown. I will play QQxx,JJxx,and TTxx only from a late position, and only in an unraised pot, unless the xx are coordinated. All other pocket pairs are garbage not to be played anywhere except a free pass from the blind unless the xx are coordinated-and let me be clear, with lower cards coordinated means close in rank, not suited. You don't want to make a flush with non-nut cards. In pot limit games, you want very big starting hands in early position, because you face the prospect of a pot sized raise behind you. In late position, you can play more hands in an unraised pot. If you never played any strting hands less than 89TJ, you probably wouldn't be wrong. I don't like starting hands where the cards are either low or middle ranked, even if they are coordinated.
In Omaha this is how you make your money: Full house over full house, full house over flush, flush over flush, and straight over straight. You have to know how to read the board perfectly. This gets back to why low pairs are garbage. If you play 22xx and flop A72 and the turn is another 7 you have a full house that will get you broke. Anyone with A7xx,72xx,or77xx will take all your money. Even if only trip 7's are out against you, the river could make someone very lucky and you very broke. If there are more than four players in your game, the non-nut full house is almost always worthless by the river. If you can show it down cheap, fine, but don't push with it, and don't call huge bets with it. Don't draw at the ignorant end of a straight either. If you make it, chances are you will either tie or be beat.
On the flop you want to have either the nuts with redraws to a bigger hand, or a draw to the nuts with redraws. Anything else is a check-fold at this point. Whenever I bet or raise, it's usually at least half the pot, just like in NL. In some cases if I'm in EP and I want to build a pot I will go for a check-raise in order to bet a larger amount. If I'm on the button and it's checked to me, I will often make a pot sized bet, even if I have nothing. In Omaha, if someone has something on the flop, they will usually bet it. If you get check-raised, let it go.
In high/low games you want to only play starting hands that have the potential to scoop the pot. You make money off your opponents because they will play starting hands for low only. That is for losers. Winners don't want to split the pot, they want it all to themselves, so why play a hand that can only give you half the pot at best?. What's worse, your low can be counterfeited, or if someone shares your low, you may end up quartering the pot.
That about sums up what I know about the game. Play tight and wait for the right hands and you will get paid off big when your opponents hit their non-nut draws against your nut hands. You will be surprised how easy it is to get people all in and drawing thin in PLO.
this is my fav game now...i started out playing NLHM, and i consider myself to be a good player... but like i was telling my girlfriend tonight, i almost feel like i was born to play PLO...90%+ of the time i have my money all in after the flop with the best hand (the rare occasion where the flop is 2710 and its my set of 7's vs a set of 10's and im basically drawing dead...
to say you will be rivered more in PLO vs holdem is a severe understatement...play enough hands and you will know what the other player is drawing too...
here are a couple tips...and fwiw...i play at Party so keep that in mind...
#1) the meatballs (and i swear there are people there that have NO CONCEPT of how to even play the game) at party see PLO as a great game in where you have 2 extra cards to play...when you break it down if your playing solid starting hands, its your 4cards against their 3 in most cases...
#2) i RARELY raise with anything...only b/c at PP you CANNOT drive anyone out of the pot...if you bet the pot most if not all with call the $10ish raise only b/c they know with the 4 cards they have a shot at a flop....
#3) if you call with a hand like 10JKK and the flop is 27K mix...dont think of getting cute and slowplaying...if you flop the current nuts...BET IT....BET IT...BET IT...i cant stress that enough...when i 1st started playing, i tried to get cute and i was giving free cards (you cant give free cards in PLO unless you flop 4 of a kind of a str8 flush)...and it would come back to haunt me...always bet it..even if there's 7 in the pot and your 1st to act...BET IT!
the swings are wild but i feel its the easiest game to make money at b/c the quality of players is so much worse than the holdem pool...anyone can play AA in holdem...in PLO its about making laydowns when you know your beat...you have AAXX and you dont hit the flop hard...dont chase
be carefull of set over set...esp low double suited hands, they can be nice but they can cost you a lot of money in certain situations...play solid hands and you will be fine....
cool, i just picked up a nice pot... i had the nut flush draw, a gutshot straight.... i bet .1 into a .30 pot... everyone calls, 7 callers...
turn gives me my gutshot.. so now i have the nuts w/ a redraw to the nut flush, i go all in 3 callers!... river is a Q of spades... blank, i still have the nuts.. i quadruple up.... this game is crazy
wow, the poeple who play this game no little to nohting about how to play... man.... this is awesome... i'm playing @ penny ante pokerstars and getting payed off like crazy... i just hate t othink about what is gona happen when i start getting sucked out...
also, let's say i have the nuts, but not a great nuts... like set of A's but there is 2 to flush on board and 2 to straigt on board, and i have none of those... if the pot it small, do i wana take a card and hope my hand doesn't blow up... or bet a small pot?
what if the pot is large, then i wanna bet big right?
I play the penny games at stars too. Got my ass handed to me last night on this one hand. I was in MP with AAxx two suits. The player to my right makes a pot sized raise. I call, but then there is a raise behind me. The original re-raises and now it's like $2 to call. I decide to try and get it heads up (big mistake) by going all-in for my entire $5 buy-in. Well the re-raiser calls and he's all in, and one other player also call all-in from EP, and so does the original raiser, creating a main pot and two side pots. Wow! Four people all-in before the flop. Flop comes 77x, and then xx on the turn and river, not an ace in sight. Player to my right shows a total crap hand 77xx for four of a kind sevens. This was the biggest penny ante pot I ever saw, nearly $16!!!!
This idiot got extremely,lucky. He must be a shitty hold'em player too, you know the kind that would push pocket 7's all-in in NL. It's no all-in hand there, and it's even worse in Omaha. My AA isn't great (except heads up) but I did have 2 possible nut flush draws. That's Omaha for you. Lost 500BB on that one hand. Was so pissed that I gave up on PS for the evening and went over to play some NL at Paradise where the people were just giving me their money.
anytime i have top set and its the current nuts....i bet the pot or reraise as much as i can (i love being ALL IN with the top set)...like i said in my previous post...never give free cards...esp with top set on the flop, if they are going to try to outdraw you...MAKE THEM PAY to do so...if you currently have the best possible hand...why would you want to give away free cards...say the pot is $14...instead of giving a free card on the turn...you bet out the $14 and get 2 callers...now there's $42 in the pot...say the turn is a blank...now you can come out firing for the full $42 and put them to a decision as to whether or not they should call to see the river card...sometimes a decent player will chase the turn card and procede to fold to your big river bet b/c the pot odds arent worth it...
you will be surprised how many times you will have top set and you bet the pot (say $20) after the flop and someone comes over the top on a st8 or flush draw...a semibluff, trying to move you off your hand...little do they know your holding the best hand at the moment...it happened to me the other day...i had AAXX and the flop came 68A...i bet out like $30ish and he comes over the top for like $100+ i then went all in...he did catch his str8 on the turn as a 9 came...but i filled a boat on the river (another 9) and took down a $260 pot....
The gaming club has a deal where if you play a couple hours a day in the ring games(50 raked hands), they let you play three 1k freerolls per day. Yeah that's not much cash, but it's a good place for a tourney novice like me.
I decided to take on a second game this week. I spent almost 3 years playing two games at once, but fould my results better in just one. So I decided to give my main limit game 90% of my attention and just play the cards at a lower limit on another site. The idea is to get the bonuses at other sites without screwing up my main game. If my results fall off at my main game, I will put a quick end to this experiment. The other reason I want to play a second game is to use pokertracker, which analyzes hand historys and identifys leaks, ect. I had an old computer with limited memory, but this week I bought a new laptop so I will be getting pokertracker.
Thurs: I won just two big pots in 3 hours and finished ahead 50.
Fri: Started with a nice rush +700 then I get outdrawn over and over and I'm back to even. I win a single hand in two hours, then I hit a set over set and have a KK hold up to finish +303.
Sat: One of the few days where I don't get outdrawn at all. I had one hand that is revenge kind of hand for all those 2 out chasers: I raise JJ in late position, button and blind call.
FLop K h Jc 4d
I'm bet into by the blind, I raise, button calls cold, blind calls other blind folds.
Turn: 9
The button has 99 and we cap the turn and two bet the river. Drawing slim and got there.+816.
Sun: I'm in a game with someone who will drop his 800 buy-in and is playing about 60% of his hands, but against me he is golden. I watched someone call 4 bets preflop with A2off to beat my cowboys. I sometimes want to know if those people actually wonder why they lose.-300
Mon: My wife and I went to Pensacola Beach for the first time to swim in the Gulf. It was very nice the water was perfect. The waves were pretty high and it was fun splashing around out there. Then, as fate would have it, it started raining. I thought to myself...is this even remotely fair?
There was a tear under my fine mirrored Oakleys. I was filled with contempt. I cursed the Gods for taking a leak on that beach on that day. Then I cursed myself. Then I drove home.
I picked up another 611 in about 5 hours. I had another semibluff work against a crowd. I'm in the BB with A7s and a loose raiser had raised a limper, sb calls, I call, limper calls.
Flop: Ks 3c Ts
SB bets, I raise, limper and raiser fold.
Turn: 5c SB checks, I bet and I get lucky and he folds.
Tues: I pick up 50 bucks at intercasino for playing 300 hands on my second game. I keep hitting sets at my main game and getting paid off. +362. Went to the Grand with the guy from work but didn't play as they canceled the tourney.
Wed: My laptop came in today. I immediately start to burn some CD's since this is the first time I've had this ability. Kind of weird. I need to buy a mouse for it as my desktop's won't work on it. I also tested it out by downloading some porn and eureka!
I played one of the gamingclub 1k freerolls and finished in the money for the first time in a NL multi. Of course "the money" is used very loosly as it was 4 bucks. I was still hitting flops at the 10-20 and I finished up 754, finishing the week a decent 2596 for what I think is my second best week this year.
The Last Straw
Six guys were playing poker when Smith loses $500 on a single hand, clutches his chest and drops dead at the table. Showing respect for their fallen comrade, the other five complete their playing time standing up.
Roberts looks around and asks, "Now, who is going to tell the wife?"
They draw straws. Rippington, who is always a loser, picks the short one. They tell him to be discreet, be gentle, don't make a bad situation any worse than it is.
"Gentlemen! Discreet? I'm the most discreet man you will ever meet. Discretion is my middle name, leave it to me."
Rippington walks over to the Smith house, knocks on the door, the wife answers, asks what he wants.
Rippington says, "Your husband just lost $500 playing cards."
She hollers, "TELL HIM TO DROP DEAD!"
Rippington says, "OK,I'll tell him!!"
